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Friday, 20 September 2013

Round table discussion: Submission.


Submission - In or out of the bedroom or both? This is the topic being discussed by the knights of the Round Table today and I was kindly give a slot to add my two cents worth. ( A smart person would say my opinion isn't even worth that much ;) )

If you've come directly here please do make sure you link in to the main discussion board on Spanking Romance Reviews by clicking below to find out what this hot topic means to all involved by clicking below. There's a great up ready to share their thoughts.

Round Table discussion on spanking romances

Hmm, I think I’ll start this article with a conversation I had with the other half (hereinafter referred to in that wonderful term used here by spouses all the time…Himself, wives being Herself.
Himself  generally would prefer not to know what his bad brat of a wife is writing about but every so often he might “ask how’s it going” or “what are you up to now”  or I might mention something in passing, or get his opinion on a scene or something like that. Anyway, this was one such brief conversation:

Himself: “What are you working on now?”
Me: “Natasha is hosting a discussion on submission and I said I’d do an article.”
Himself, (with a derisory laugh):” Submission, what the feck would you know about that?”

Àt first I got all huffy and sulky – had he no value on my obedience dans la chambre?
“So what the hell was going on here for the last number of years?” I wanted to scream at him (yeah, I know, just proving his point that I know nothing about submission, gah I hate it when he’s right.)

Accepting that he might have a point, I thought right, instead of huffing, let’s start with the dictionary: (full sure I’d be able to bring himself proof of my submissiveness)

To Submit as per dictionary.com 
1.       to give over or yield to the power or authority of another 

Ha ha ha, I’m still laughing…what power? what authority???? I didn't even get to read any further than the first definition. And that is in no way meant to be disrespectful to himself. It’s just the way I see it. We’re equals, in a partnership. We make decisions either together, if they’re important enough to warrant discussion, or if they’re small day to day things we make uni-lateral decisions, like what’s for dinner or I need a new kettle. Himself tells me I’d argue my way out of a paper bag, and that too is true.
So I got to thinking – are Irish women submissive in general? I think overall probably not.

A little bit of history.

The Irish state was formed in the early 1920’s and with it came a very fundamentalist Catholic rule. Women were put in their places and God forbid you were “loose,” that was often punishable by incarceration in a Magdalene laundry.
Added to the moral repression, there was a dreadful recession following independence and as a result, in order to ensure that the jobs were spread around among as many families as possible, the “marriage ban” was imposed, which effectively meant that all women civil servants and teachers  had to give up their jobs upon the event of their marriage. This was introduced in 1932 and continued until 1958. There was also a law allowing the employment of women in industry be restricted and controlled. Women became economically dependent on their husbands. And if there was a problem of marital disharmony, women spoke to the priest, usually in confession, and were basically told: "this is your lot, get on with it."

And yet I would swear that this country is a matriarchal society in the main. So for women to survive and thrive they often had to appear submissive, but all the while maintaining a kind of underhand control.
Certainly nowadays, I’d be hard pushed to find a truly submissive woman among my Irish friends. But we grew up in the late 70’s early 80’s when things had changed. And then to be a woman was becoming better and better, until probably the pinnacle when we had two female Presidents of Ireland in a row from 1997 to 2011. And the era of Mna na hEireann – [the women of Ireland] was born.

So to sum it all up…what does submission mean to me?

To be honest for me it’s a kink, a hot exciting one but just that. I wouldn’t want it to be anything else because women have fought too long and hard to gain equality in this country and that fight is still fresh in our minds and the status quo is kind of still being established in many ways.  So my desire to submit sexually will stay just that. I couldn’t in good conscience undo the good work of many and nor would I want to.
I adore reading about dominant men and submissive women, it excites me to no end. I also prefer to be submissive in certain aspects of my relationship, but they are limited to play rather than a real lifestyle.

I totally admire anyone who chooses to live the life more fully than I choose to.  It would be much harder to live it in this day and age where we’re all expected to be hard core feminists and equal opportunists etc.  and I imagine many submissives probably have to fight for their right to choose that life, and probably spend a lot of their lives hiding it, just like women had to fight for equality and take it by stealth.

But for me, personally, I want a strong man, yes, because he has to be able to take me on, earn and keep my respect, but not someone who expects me to kneel before them in everyday life because I could never do that. I see submission as a gift to be offered on the terms of the submissive, as it is hers (his) to give.  A good Dominant will recognise the subs parameters and try to bring the sub to all the limits they can comfortably deal with. And a good Dominant will also recognise that just because a submissive offers certain gifts, it does not make the sub any less worthy a person, or their opinions or thoughts any less valid, or their brain less functional.

But back to the original question...Submission- for me - in or out of the bedroom or both? Well I'll go along with it in the bedroom, kitchen, living-room, bathroom, garden, restaurant,pub, where-ever but only as long as its for mutual fun,

Oh and please do feel free to comment, even if it's to be like himself and tell me I know nothing about submission! 


  1. I love the conversation with your husband and from what I know of you, it just so fits. I agree - in or out of the bedroom, must be mutually fulfilling and fun.

    Thanks for joining in, Tara.

    1. Bless him, he has a lot to put up with Natasha. But as you might have gathered he is pretty equal to the task.
      Thanks for including me.

  2. Interesting take on the question, Tara! And I appreciate so many of your points. Most pertinent I think is that submission is a personal thing, unique to us all: there is no single way to 'do' it. And I agree so completely that submissiveness does not mean that a person is in any way lessened. As you say, submission is a gift. It should be cherished.

    A very ironic thought that contemporary western women might have to fight for their right to be submissive! I bet Germaine Greer's head would explode with the idea.

    1. Thank you Penelope. In some ways maybe society hasn't changed that much. It's not really about who should dominate or who should acquiesce as much as accepting there is room for all. Once it was considered wrong for women to have opinions, and then the backlash against D/s being equal to abuse started. Hopefully one day we will have a society that accepts that diversity is beauty.

    2. Yes, Tara! That is exactly how I see it & what I strive for! I for one do accept diversity as beauty. I hope that is the direction that humanity as a whole is going!

    3. I do think that there is more and more social acceptance of individual choices, but history has taught us that some changes are slow to come about. Bloggers, factual and fictional books and the glory of shared information on the www can only help open the doors of acceptance.

  3. I love your husband's reaction. I am sure my husband would have said the same if he knew what I was writing about (he didn't happen to ask this week).
    Yes, I like a strong man, so I can argue with him and know he won't run away. I think if either of our husbands were looking for a woman to kneel at their feet they wouldn't have married either of us!
    Thanks for your view on the matter, I love reading your posts :)

    1. Thanks Casey. I love reading yours too. I think you're right about both our husbands. But thank heavens there are men like that out there, who want a feisty woman but enjoy putting her in her place at times all the more because of it - Revenge, I think it's called ;-, or taking it out on your arse!

  4. I so love your post and thinking here Tara. You know, as a "Woman's Rights Activist" myself, every once in a while my life-style will become exposed so to speak to someone who has got close. And the quandaries of emotion that come into talk take off on a vein of their own.

    Personally, I would have a hard time admiring a woman who did not have a strong and defined set of values in both human rights and equality. I admire your knowledge of territory in your love of this life and style and believe as you do that every relationship is defined by those in it. And that alone says it all, -the right to choose to enter this life and style and just how to position it to fit your needs, desires, ideals and love with your partner...

  5. Joseph,
    To my shame, I often forget that without male "Women's Rights Activists" there would never have been equality.
    So for women, thank you.
    I can truly imagine you have been involved in more than one debate on the subject, but they don't have to be mutually exclusive because as you say, couples can position it to fit their joint needs and desires.

  6. "Well I'll go along with it in the bedroom, kitchen, living-room, bathroom, garden, restaurant,pub, where-ever but only as long as its for mutual fun." I laughed so hard when I read this. Here; Here!!

    I find that there is beauty in choice. The fact that any part of this is my choice is what makes it so meaningful to me. It's what allows me to flourish within this dynamic of my marriage. Without choice...the act would be deflated...all of the energy that makes it what it is would be gone. It would only be repression. Knowing that no matter how deep we go with this (even consensual non-consent) that deep down it is my choice is the very thing that gives air to the flame.

    1. Absolutely Corinne, the beauty is in choice, and being able to work out what is good for you, what makes you better as a couple and as an individual. I always smile at the term consensual non consent. To me, in a way when you embark on this road, once you set the boundaries, and the behaviour is within those established boundaries, then the consent is already given, and even if it's a no its a yes. (Safeword excepted if you use one, obviously)

  7. You are a total crack up and I love when you throw in a little Irish education for me, too. Yes, submission bent over the couch is awesome, as is submission in the kitchen with the spatula.... LOL

    Great post!

    1. Not so bad in a restaurant either ;) Thanks Renee. But you can see why it's a constant battle and why there aren't too many Irish people writing in this genre. It's a whole lot of baggage.

  8. You know, Tara, as far as I've read so far, I think part of it (especially around women's rights) is for me this thing of language use, I even found it reading Trent's (and I wondered at replying). I think too much is often given to what the words means. I know that seems silly to say since we're all talking about what submission means. But really, it comes back to for me "just living life"- and fuck if I'm going to do what anyone tells me to do unless it's my Master or they have the force of law behind them :D

    1. Lord bless us Joelle, while I agree on one level, these people were my grandmothers or women I knew well, and they made me what I am! A fecked up mix of a sort of half time submissive and a major dose of opinionated woman!
      I know enough of your life to hold you in tremendous admiration and also not to be afraid to discuss, argue or debate. Even though you choose to be a slave, you are never afraid to be you. A rare and admirable mix

  9. Great post. Thank you for your honesty. I think each of us has to find our balance...find what works for us AND our partner. When we find that sweet spot where both of our needs are met, that's where we thrive.